Saying No To Podcasting Jobs & Yes To Podcaster Relationships

Podcasting is a growth industry, with demand starting to outpace supply. Should you grow your podcasting business through any means necessary, or by leaving room for the right opportunities?

August 11, 2020

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I never wanted to get into podcasting as a business. Yet it's been my only meaningful income stream for four years. How did that happen?

I won’t bore you with my 16-year long podcasting journey. But I will offer up two pieces of advice for you, assuming you’ve decided to try to carve out your own slice of the get-paid-to-podcast pie. After all, you’ve developed some valuable podcasting skills that others - individuals or companies - might be willing to pay for. And they might as well pay you, right?

The Value Equation vs Investing In Opportunities

The value equation - don’t worry, no math is involved - is simple: you provide the valuable podcasting skills you’ve developed, and people give you stored value items - money - in return. Most people - me included - start out charging a low rate and then steadily increase that rate. Not only to keep pace with cost of living changes but also because our increased experience lets us charge a premium.

But that’s not the only way to work. You can, if you choose, invest in an opportunity to work with someone on their podcast. An investment you’d like to see pay off in the future for more than you would have received in the classic value question. You won’t get paid (either fully or partially) right now, but you’re betting on the value of your efforts paying off (either fully or exponentially) in the future.

Without fail, I triage every inbound business contact through this binary lens. Is this likely to be purely a business transaction? Or is there a larger opportunity on the horizon I want to shoot for?

Contrary to what self-described life coaches or business gurus will tell you, this isn’t a pass/fail decision flow. I’m quite happy to take purely business transactions and provide quality podcasting services to my happy clients in exchange for their money. I’m equally as happy to provide similar (if not the same) services as an investment toward an opportunity that might develop in the future. I don’t begrudge my time spent on one vs the other. So long as I’m working with the right clients, that is.

The Wrong Clients Eventually Bring Bad Money

With the gift of hindsight, I can confidently say that out of all the clients I’ve lost or fired, none have been a surprise. I knew at the very beginning of the relationship that I probably shouldn't take the job. But I did, always because I needed the money. Or wanted the money. Which isn’t quite the same thing, but that’s my problem.

Sometimes, especially when you’ve just hung out your podcaster-for-hire shingle or in challenging times like these (a phrase we’re all quite sick of now and placed here for cringe-factor only), you take jobs you can do but don’t really want to do. You've got to make ends meet. You've got to do what you've got to do. There’s no shame in that. So don’t beat your self up when the money starts looking less attractive. Fire them (when you can) and move on.

The Right Clients May Never Have Good Money

For every “well that worked out nice!” story I have, there are two or three that never panned out. That’s why the biggest rule in investment (or gambling) is to never gamble (or invest) more money than you can afford to lose.

Often times, you’re perfect for a podcasting project. Or there’s a perfect podcasting project you really want to work with, but there’s no (or very little) budget for your services. I am very likely to say yes to those opportunities, even though I know most of them probably won’t pan out. As with the bad-money clients before, I don’t lament the hours lost. Sunk costs are just that. Focus on what you learned from the deal that didn’t pan out and move on.

Unexpected Clients With Unexpected Money Come From Unexpected Directions

On occasion, truly uncertain opportunities present themselves. Sometimes you catch wind of... something that’s hard to put your finger on. You probably don’t know enough about the project to make that initial triage decision. Maybe the client is way too big for you, but they still want to talk. Maybe you can’t figure out the podcasting angle, but they’re terribly excited about an audience you’ve never considered and know nothing about. Or maybe you’re invited to a lunch meeting (if we ever have lunch meetings again) because someone you respect wants you to meet with someone else they respect sight-unseen.

My default response when these unusual circumstances appear: I take the meeting. I reply to the email asking to set up a meeting to talk further. I go to the lunch, prepared to pick up the check if it goes really, really well.

I’m quite good at sizing up opportunities. But I know the world beyond my bubble of influence is filled with opportunities I can’t see. When a window beyond my immediate world opens, I have to look through it. Don’t you?

Things You Don’t Ever Want To Do vs Things You Don’t Want To Do Forever

According to Robert A. Heinlein, specialization is for insects. I might specialize in podcasting, but I’m a generalist, with a broad set of skills that enable me to plug into almost any podcasting project at any stage. However, there are certain aspects of the podcasting process I can do, but really don’t want to do.

I’ve turned down podcasting clients who only want my firm to manage their social media properties. Yes, I know how to do that and have built out large teams to provide those types of services for very large organizations. Which is why I can confidently state that social media management for podcasts, while something I can do, is something I don’t ever want to do.

In contrast, there are lots of podcasting services I’m offering to clients that I don’t want to do forever. Take post-production work for example. I used to take a lot of post-production work when I was just starting out. And while my firm obviously provides post-production work as part of our services, we no longer offer post-production as an ala carte service.

But fair warning: Be prepared to be very wrong about those convictions.

When I got into podcasting-as-my-business in 2016, podcast advertising was squarely in my Don't Ever Want To Do category. How naive of me. Fast forward to today, and my firm is handling a modest-but=growing book of business managing podcast advertising, either buying ads or selling them. As it turns out, it’s fun, engaging, and meaningful work that we’re happy to provide.

Podcasting Work That Is Important But Not Urgent

Business planners love their 2x2 grids, and one that charts urgency on one axis and importance on the other is quite common. Here’s a rather colorful version I grabbed from an image search (with credit and a dofollow link provided because I’m a good citizen of the web):

2x2 grid with urgency as once axis and importance on the other

I try to spend as much of my time as possible in the upper right corner, working on things that are important but not urgent. Of course, I can’t spend all of my time there. If I neglect the important things that are also urgent, I’m no longer in the podcasting-as-a-business business.

Nota bene: I know my privilege is showing here. And I know that not everybody is able to focus on the area of the matrix where opportunities come from. If you're struggling to make ends meet, you gotta do what you gotta do so you can pay the rent and keep food on the table. Your situation may look quite different than mine. But providing business/life coach services remains squarely in my Do Not Want To Ever Do box, so...

Betting On The Future

Though it’s been a struggle these last few months, I almost always bet on the future. And even if I don’t, I'm almost always thinking about the future. If that means I don't get paid to work on a really cool project I feel has the opportunity to become something I want to be involved with, I'm going to take that bet.

Maybe you will as well.

I'm also betting you’ll go to BuyMeACoffee.com/EvoTerra, and sign up to send a virtual coffee. It's an inexpensive way to show your appreciation for the crazy-but-hopefully-though-provoking ideas about podcasting I bring to you on a daily basis.

Do you know someone who is considering getting into the paid-to-podcast business? Send them the link to this episode with a personal note, perhaps encouraging them to not neglect the important-but-not-urgent quadrant to help their business grow in unexpected areas.

I shall be back tomorrow with yet another Podcast Pontifications.

Cheers!

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ℹ️

Podcast Pontifications is written and narrated by Evo Terra. He’s on a mission to make podcasting better. Allie Press proofed the copy, corrected the transcript, and edited the video. Podcast Pontifications is a production of Simpler Media.

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PPS3E20 Saying No To Podcasting Jobs & Yes To Podcaster Relationships - Transcript

Podcasting is a growth industry with demand starting to outpace the supply. Should you grow your podcasting business by any means necessary or by leaving room for the right opportunities?

[00:00:19] Hello, and welcome to another podcast. Pontifications with me, Evo, Tara. I never wanted to get into podcasting as a business yet. It's been my only meaningful income stream for four years. Now. What happened? How did this, this sounds like fun thing. Become the. This sounds like it's what I'm going to do forever thing.

[00:00:44] Well, there was a lot of winding roads that we're not going to explore all of them today, clearly, but I do want to talk to you about this idea of taking jobs when you get started in business as podcasters versus opportunities. And the reason I bring this up is because a lot of podcasters are starting to think, gee, I've got this valuable skill.

[00:01:08] I can trade this valuable skill and someone else doesn't have, so I can get their stored valuation money in return. And that's the value equation right there. You do work. People give you money for it. You've built skills. Why not? You know what you're doing? People will pay you to do various things and you should get paid for that.

[00:01:33] How much you get paid is a different story. Clearly, when I started charging for my services, I charged a much smaller fee than I charged. Now. I built up time and experience on a, I can get a whole lot more than I used to get. This isn't about setting your price. This is really more about trying to understand working towards making money versus working towards making something better.

[00:01:57] So I mentioned the value equation, right? That is where again, you have a valuable service to provide to people who will give you money in return for that. The opposite of that is investment. The opposite of that is investment. Investment in doing something not necessarily to get paid right now, but to maybe get paid in the future, trying to figure out when you're in business for yourself, which of those two things you want to do is critical.

[00:02:28] And it's a, one of the first triaged things I go through when I'm evaluating an opportunity. Am I just doing this for money or is this an investment? And, and there, there's not a right or wrong answer here. Right. There's just different ways to do it, but let's talk about the, the reality of things, right?

[00:02:45] So if you just do it for the value equation, keep this in mind. Sometimes the wrong clients will bring in money, but eventually bad money. Like every client that I have lost and, or fired, I've known from the beginning. I probably shouldn't take this job. I have yet to be surprised when a client departs, because eventually as I say, the wrong clients will bring you wrong money and wrong for them, wrong for you, whatever the case it'll eventually go away.

[00:03:21] Sometimes you have to do it. You've got to make ends meet. You've got to do what you've got to do. But just remember that sometimes the wrong client is eventually going to bring you what I call bad money. Now, the right clients sometimes don't have any money. Wow. What do you do there? The right client does not have any money, but that can lead to meaningful opportunities.

[00:03:42] There have been several clients I have worked with and am still working with right now that did not have the money necessary to do the thing we wanted to do together. But we found a way to get it done and almost always some meaningful opportunity came out of the other end of that, that has given me more money, opportunity, experience, whatever else on the back and keep this in mind.

[00:04:11] Also, sometimes it's not right or wrong situation. Sometimes you just don't know. Sometimes it's an unknown client. You don't know what the opportunity looks like. You have no idea if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but you take the meeting anyhow. Or at least I take the meeting anyhow, because quite often that's introduced me to some really smart people that are doing great things now, sometimes in conjunction with me.

[00:04:38] So I don't always put the things what's going to get me paid immediately. I'm okay with looking at some investment. And I think part of that is I have a good understanding and you need to develop a good understanding of the difference between these two things. You need to know what you do not want to do ever versus what you don't want to do for forever.

[00:05:02] In podcasting. That makes a lot of sense. To me. There are certain things inside of podcasting business opportunities inside of podcasting that I know how to do, and I never want, okay. I just do not want to do them. Look, if you call me up and you say, Eva, what's it going to cost for you to run our social media properties for our new podcast?

[00:05:22] I'm going to say no, because I don't want to do that ever. That's in contrast to things I don't want to do for forever. I'm willing to take on a client that is pretty rote stuff. If there's opportunity on the other end with this client, maybe for example, a client with an opportunity, some say, look, we just want to do post-production editing.

[00:05:47] I don't really do that when we clearly we do post production editing, but not as an only situation. So I wouldn't want to do that forever, but it might make sense to bring that client in offer that service. If it gives me an opportunity to do more within that client. Now, one other thing about this concept is be sure you're prepared to be very wrong about both of those things.

[00:06:10] When I got into podcasting about four years ago, one of the things I said I don't want to do ever is do with podcast advertising. Well, I was wrong about that. I'm actually doing quite a bit with podcast advertising and it's fun. It's engaging. I'm, I'm enjoying it once again. And there are certain things I said, maybe I don't want to do forever.

[00:06:28] That I'm also still doing, because it's worked out as a part of the situation. So have those guardrails established up front, but again, be prepared to be wrong about both of them. I think what really allows me to do this and hopefully something I can impart to you as you're working on building your podcast business is that which lets me do this is I work in the quadrant of important, but not urgent if you've been through any sort of business school or you've been in business or you've been in a meeting somewhere at some point in time when you're doing business planning, somebody whips out the two by two.

[00:07:04] That shows that things that we do in order of urgency important. And they graph one across the bottom axis and one across the top axis, urgency and importance, and there's things that are very urgent and very important. There are things that are not at all urgent and not at all important, uh, that's wasting time obviously, but the fact the, the quieter I work in most, and I like to work in most.

[00:07:25] He is that, which is important stuff. That's not terribly urgent. That affords me the opportunity to look at opportunities I get in there. Not everybody is there. If you're struggling to make ends meet, you gotta do what you gotta do to pay for your rent. You don't get kicked out and keep food on the table.

[00:07:43] Then you're not really in an opportunity where you can do that yet, but you can get there. Ultimately, you've got to do what you've got to do. Try and offload various things. I'm not here to be a business coach. I'm going to talk about podcasting, podcasting businesses specifically. To try to find yourself in that important, but not urgent quadrant.

[00:08:02] And you'll find more time to do interesting things. See, for me, I always bet on the future. Yeah. There are immediate needs. I need to meet, I have to get these things done, but after that, I'm thinking about the future. So that means I don't get paid to work on a really cool project with the opportunity to maybe do something else that I really want to do.

[00:08:23] I'm going to take that bet. Maybe you will as well. Maybe not, I'm also betting at least some of you, one of you, maybe you. We'll go to buy me a coffee.com/evo Terra, and sign up to support me by giving, give me a virtual coffee. It's really cheap, but it shows your appreciation for the things I do here on the program on a daily basis.

[00:08:46] I also would appreciate it. If you would tell one working Castro about this, maybe, you know, someone who is establishing a podcasting business, who is trying to get you to be a part of their podcasting business, send them this episode and say, let's think about this. Let's make sure we're working in the important, but not urgent quadrant as much as we possibly can to see where our business can really grow.

[00:09:07] Please send them podcast. Pontifications I would appreciate it. That is it. Enjoy the rest of your day. I shall be back tomorrow with yet another podcast. Pontifications cheers. .

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