Growing Your Podcast

Accepting Podcast Listeners' Interest vs Desire Conflict

Market research & analytics show interest in your podcast’s topic is huge, but your audience growth is modest at best. Before you blame your content or marketing, the problem may be a lack of desire.

October 21, 2020

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Growing your podcast’s audience - actually increasing the number of people who listen, not just boosting questionable download numbers - isn’t as easy as you want it to be. Even if you’ve been super smart and spent loads of time on audience segmentation and other analyses to drill-down on your exact avatar. Even if you’ve taken that data and determined there are huge numbers of people interested in your topic. Even if you have an outstanding marketing campaign to reach a significant chunk of those interested people.

Even if you do all those things right, you’ll likely find that your podcast will only attract a tiny fraction of people who are interested in the topic of your show.

Interest Levels May Not Matter So Much

Don’t be so quick to assume this is about the “care level” people have about the topic. You might think that the problem has to do with where the people fall on the strength-of-interest spectrum, dismissing those who don’t listen as having only a casual interest in the topic, where your podcast will attract those who are really serious.

And sure, maybe those are factors in some people’s decisions. But I think that ignores the reality that people have medium preferences. Here’s what I mean.

I've always enjoyed cooking. My mom taught me how to cook when I was a kid, and I’ve been the cook in my household ever since Sheila got married 31 years ago.

But I've never once listened to a cooking podcast? And I doubt I ever will. Because I have no desire to listen to a cooking podcast.

And I think that it’s desire mixed with medium preferences that determine whether someone listens to your podcast or not.

Medium Preferences, Desire, & Reaching Potential listeners

Let’s stick with my interest in cooking to explore these concepts of medium preferences and desire more closely. And we’ll start with the original killer app: email.

It goes without saying that I have an email account, just like you. But ubiquitous as email may be, I don’t subscribe to any cooking newsletters. I don’t get emails from cooking companies or cooking-related content providers. (And if I do, I quickly hit unsubscribe and report spam.)

I’m quite active on social media. Yet I don't follow any cooking accounts, foodie personalities, or other cooking-related content providers on social media.

I have a TV and subscribe to more than one OTT streaming service. But I don't watch cooking shows. Nor do I watch shows with cooking-adjacent content. I don’t even watch “how to” cooking videos on YouTube, so I obviously don’t subscribe to any cooking YT channels either.

So here’s me, a person with a high amount of interest in cooking - I cooked probably 75% of the meals we eat even before the pandemic - who simply doesn’t have the desire to consume cooking-related content in any of those mediums. Content providers on those mediums reach me all the time. But I don’t engage with that reach. I’m not going to take the action they want me to take. I’m not going to subscribe. I’m not going to watch. I’m not going to listen. I’m not going to click through.

I simply do not have the desire to do so.

This is what we’re up against in podcasting. If money were no object, we could reach just about everybody who happens to be interested in our topic. That could be thousands or millions of people. And we could reach them with highly targeted and customized messages that extol the benefits of listening to our podcast.

But we’re only ever going to convert a small fraction of those we reached to become listeners of our podcast.

Desire Barriers

Making the decision to listen to a podcast is often not a binary choice. All things are rarely equal, and this choice is no different than most others we make every day. It’s not a coin toss to decide to listen to a podcast or not.

Time is a big factor. Someone might have a high interest in the topics you cover on your show, but do they have the time to listen? This isn’t me once again telling you to make your episodes shorter (though, seriously, make your episodes shorter). This is about the discretionary time - real or imaginary - available for the person with high interest.

Need is another. Sticking with the cooking theme and paying homage to the time of year when this article was written: I’m quite happy with our family’s pumpkin pie recipe. I don’t need another one. So I certainly don't need five other ones. It doesn’t matter how much your podcast scratches a particular itch if the would-be-listener is already getting that itch scratched by another podcast. Or five other podcasts. They don’t need to add another one.

Or it could be an issue of taste. My wife loves pie, just not pumpkin pie. A new recipe won’t help fix that. The content you create on your podcast or the way you cover your topic may not fit the desired flavor profile of someone else interested in that very same topic.

Most likely, assuming you’re making a top-notch show that is worthy of growth, is the harsh reality that the person with high interest in the topic may have no desire to consume content about that topic in podcast form. Because I think I can stretch the food metaphor a bit further: think about the last time you ordered a bowl of cereal from a restaurant. Now think about all the times you eat cereal at home.

Podcasting A Path Foward Regardless

I hope you haven’t thrown up your hands in despair this far into the article. Some of my missives can be a bit depressing, I know. But I’d rather harsh your mellow than have you believing in mythology. And it’s not all bad news.

Accepting the fact that interest in a topic does not equate desire to listen to a podcast on that topic is key. It’s not enough that lots of people are into the thing that you podcast about, because many (most, actually) just don’t have the desire to listen to a podcast about the thing they are into.

Repurposing content can help. Those same people into the thing may have a desire to consume content about the thing in a different medium. What medium? I don’t know. Try all of them! Or as many as you can accommodate. Yes, that means more effort on your part to repurpose the content you’ve already dedicated a lot of time to make as a podcast into other forms. But maybe you’ll find that the growth you were looking for expressed in one of those other mediums. Wouldn’t that be interesting?

In the meantime, you need to continue to activate your existing listeners. Your existing listeners already have the desire to listen to your show. By “activate” them I mean ask them to spread your show through word of mouth. Chances are, they're interacting with people who have similar desire levels.

That's why every episode of this podcast includes a short plea to my own listeners - and my readers - that they take a moment to share it with a friend. Because the only way Podcast Pontifications grows is when one working podcast shares the show or newsletter with another working podcaster.

Are you doing something similar in your show? Are you asking people who listen to share your show with other people who share similar interests? I’d love to know how that’s been working for you. You can leave a comment here to start the conversation.

And now I have my CTAs (never have more than one CTA, by the way) out of order, so here’s the reminder to visit BuyMeACoffee.com/EvoTerra to support the program in the form of a virtual coffee.

I shall be back tomorrow for yet another Podcast Pontifications.

Cheers!

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Podcast Pontifications is written and narrated by Evo Terra. He’s on a mission to make podcasting better. Allie Press proofed the copy, corrected the transcript, and edited the video. Podcast Pontifications is a production of Simpler Media.

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PPS3E50 Accepting Podcast Listeners' Interest vs Desire Conflict - Transcript

[00:00:00] Market research and analytics show that interest in your podcast big is huge, but you're right. Audience growth is modest at best before you blame your content or your marketing, the problem, maybe a lack of desire.

hello and welcome to another podcast. Pontifications with me, Evo, Tara voice getting much closer to where it was before. Hey, [00:00:30] look growing an audience for your podcast. And I really mean growing an audience, not increasing the number of downloads. Your podcast gets very different actual audience, people who are consuming your content that requires something.

That is a big deal that requires someone to actually listen to your program and want to listen to your program on an ongoing basis. That's a little tricky. See, [00:01:00] as I said, at the intro audience, segmentation and analysis on your avatar, who are you really making this show for? What is the perfect, perfect listener look like?

Is great. Then you can take that information and then match it against other sorts of profiles around the internet. It's not hard to do this market research and you will show that the interest in the topic you want to talk about is GI. There is lots of interest. There are many people out there who are interested [00:01:30] in the central topic of your show.

Great. But in reality, you need to understand you're only ever going to reach a tiny fraction of people who are interested. That's it's not because certain people care more or less about your topic. That's, that's where you're going to probably want to go. But that's not the reality. It's not about some people have a [00:02:00] casual interest in a topic and people have a larger interest or are more serious about something.

I don't think that's it at all. Or if it is, it's definitely not to degree out. There are plenty of people who have a same level of care, same level interest out there that choose one thing or another. I think it has a lot to do with what people want out of. They're medium and podcasting is definitely a medium.

[00:02:30] Let me give you a quick example and we'll come back to podcast moment. So for example, I love to cook. I've always enjoyed cooking. My mom taught me how to cook when I was kidding. That's what I do. I cook I'm that I've been the cook of my house since Sheila and I have been married for 30, some odd years.

Right. Would you believe I've never once listened to a cooking podcast? Nope. Nor will I, I mean, there's no point for me listening to a well, okay. I'm a little weird. I might actually listen to cooking podcast because I [00:03:00] listen to lots of different types of podcasts around, but that's not really my thing.

Right. I mean it, because I have no desire to listen to a cooking podcast. And I think that desire, especially when it comes to the desire to listen to a podcast on a topic, I have an interest in, I think it has everything to do with preference, specifically media preferences and media preferences are something that [00:03:30] all of us have.

But ignore when we start looking at audience size for some weird reason. Here's another example, back to the cooking thing. Right? So, uh, email, everybody has an email account. When most people have an email account, especially people my age have an email account. I certainly have an email account, but I've, don't subscribe to any cooking newsletters.

I don't get any information sent to me via email for, from cooking companies or if I do, I quickly [00:04:00] unsubscribe to them. I don't follow any cooking resources on social media. I don't watch any TV shows or even YouTube videos of cooking channels. I mean, here I am a guy with a high interest in cooking. I cook all the time.

I really enjoy cooking those aren't going to reach me. And the reason they won't reach me is I don't want to be reached well, let me change the way I say that they probably will reach [00:04:30] me. But they're certainly not going to engage me. I'm not going to click. I'm not going to do the things they want me to do.

And I think it's similar for your podcast and whatever your niche is, as it is similar to my podcast and my particular niche, we can reach everybody. Who's interested in us. We spend the money and take the time we can reach everyone, but will we actually get them to. Become a listener. [00:05:00] That's a, that's a tougher, that's a tougher sell again.

I can pay money, you can pay money and reach everybody a big, big, big chunk. Right. But we're only going to convert a small fraction of those people. And that's for a variety of reasons why we won't convert them. Right? One might be time people who want to listen to your podcast or people who have an interest in the topic of your podcast.

Let me fix that. People might have the interest in your topic, but do they have the time? [00:05:30] And if they don't have the time, they're not going to listen and maybe they have, or they're unwilling to prioritize more time. That's, that's a big reason why, again, interest levels, high desires, low, there might be a need issue.

Talk relevant cooking for the time of year. I'm recording this at least, right? If I like my pumpkin pie recipe, I don't really need another one. I certainly don't need five other ones. So whatever need that, your podcast scratches, they [00:06:00] may be getting that itch, scratch somewhere else where they podcast or without a podcast, it could be an issue of taste.

Why is this all food-based Evo? I probably not supposed to be okay, but this is spicy, non spicy. Sure. But wrong plate, flavor profile edge. It could be just that the, the way you do your podcast, the content you bring out on your show that covers the topic may not be the way the person who is interested in the topic wants [00:06:30] to consume.

They don't have a desire to, again, their tastes might be different than yours, and it's just not their, their thing. But I think for most of them, it's the fact that it's not what they want from a podcast, like sticking with food for a second. I'm a, I eat cereal, not all the time. A couple of times. Maybe I'm not Siri shut up.

Uh, but you know what? I've never done once. I've never once ordered a bowl of cereal from [00:07:00] a restaurant, not once. Then maybe it's the same thing for your podcast. Maybe it's people really are into it and occasionally we'll dabble into it, that thing that they do, but it's something that when they go out, when they're looking for something else, I can a podcast.

That's, that's not what they're looking for out of a podcast depressing. I know, but we really well let's talk what we can do. What can we do about this situation? Well, I think the first thing that we have to do is accept the fact. [00:07:30] That interest in a topic does not equate desire to listen to a podcast on that topic.

Sorry. That's reality. We have to accept that lots of people are into that thing that you talk about, but they're just zero desire or not enough desire to listen to a podcast on that topic. So for that matter, we should explore other mediums [00:08:00] with our podcast content talking about content reapers Papillion re purposing.

Yes. Spreading our content other ways, because they may not have a desire to listen to our podcast, but they might have a desire to consume our content in other ways. Yeah. That means more work, more effort on our parts. To get the content. We're already dedicating a lot of time to put in our podcasts out in other forms.

But maybe if we think [00:08:30] about it, that way, those show growth we're looking for might come in other forms of growth. And the meantime, of course, we need to continue to activate our existing listeners, our existing listeners who do have the desire to listen to the show when you to activate them. I go spread our show through word of mouth.

Chances are they're interacting every day with people who have similar desire levels. That's why on the show. Every time I do an episode, now I'm saying things like, I'm going to say right now. I mean, if you're an [00:09:00] active podcast, you should be sharing. I would love it. If you would share podcast pontifications with friends.

Are you doing something similar in your show? Are you asking people who listened to have other people who share similar interests with them? Are they, are they sharing it with them? You should definitely ask people to do that. All right. Real quick. Before I go by me, coffee.com/evo Terra. If you want to support the program and finally.

Oh, I just said all this stuff about sharing the show. Didn't so there's really nothing [00:09:30] else to say other than I'll see you tomorrow, tomorrow. Yeah. Tomorrow for another podcast. Pontifications cheers. .

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